Thank you for this great discussion. I really liked your part about, “cultivation and nourishment of a light thats exists before thought.” I often have questions that I generate in society, and can’t wait to return to Li Shi Fu and ask him his perspective. More often I venture there in contemplation to ask, but once I have returned in person. I find upon arrival, the questions usually unravel and the answer becomes clear, but not necessarily known, just as you differentiate in Dao De Jing chapter 10 “mingbai” and “zhi”.
I also am fascinated by your vision of the meeting of a great Daoist master and a great Buddhist master. It is a beautiful image I will be thinking about.
My journey through these two philosophies/religions was reverse of yours, as my study of Daoism preceded my study of Buddhism. I find my teachers of both overlapping; sometimes my Daoist teacher sounds like a Buddhist and sometimes my Buddhist teacher sounds like a Daoist, from the framework you have brilliantly and simply outlined here. So I admit, I have let this question dissolve of the comparison of Buddhism and Daoism, in hopes of someone like you who would have a deeper understanding of both to bring some light to it 🙏
Hey! You could check out The Healing Art of Qigong by Liu Hong Perry. That was the first book I read about qigong and really enjoyed it. In terms of the thought behind qigong and Daoist practice more broadly, I would begin with the classics. Burton Watson’s translation of the Zhuangzi is great. Louis Komjathy also has a book coming out any minute now called Entering Stillness which you might like. I hope this helps! 😊🙏
Thanks, Oscar. I really enjoyed this. I wonder what a similar exploration of Daoism and the Chan school of Buddhism might reveal? I know that Rinzai Zen has some energy practices, so maybe these are taken from Chan? Look forward to reading more!
Hey Ed! I'm so glad you enjoyed the article. The relationship between Daoism and Chan/ Zen Buddhism is very interesting. I sometimes think of Chan/Zen Buddhism as Daoism phrased in Buddhist terminology and minus discussion of qi.
I didn't know that Rinzai had energetic practices. Do you have any details about the specific practices? They could be from Shingon (a Japanese form of Vajrayana Buddhism), or perhaps from monks that somehow studied internal alchemy. I've heard these exist and actually, to contradict my prior assessment about Chan being Daoism minus qi, there are rare forms of Buddhist internal alchemy associated with places like Shaolin.
I think that, as you say, they’re very similar to the internal alchemy associated with Daoism. Daizan Skinner’s translations of Hakuin’s descriptions of a practice that seems very similar to the microcosmic orbit do use the word ‘alchemy’. Apparently, Hakuin learnt these practices from a hermit as a cure for his ‘Zen sickness’!
To follow up on Ed's mention of Hakuin and "Zen sickness," the hermit Hakuyu (possibly a yamabushi) instructed Hakuin to visualize a lump of butter on his head and to "melt" that butter so it flowed down, dissolving blockages. There is a nice description of this anecdote/practice here: http://underthemoonshadow.blogspot.com/2010/08/soft-butter-method.html
Thank you for this great discussion. I really liked your part about, “cultivation and nourishment of a light thats exists before thought.” I often have questions that I generate in society, and can’t wait to return to Li Shi Fu and ask him his perspective. More often I venture there in contemplation to ask, but once I have returned in person. I find upon arrival, the questions usually unravel and the answer becomes clear, but not necessarily known, just as you differentiate in Dao De Jing chapter 10 “mingbai” and “zhi”.
I also am fascinated by your vision of the meeting of a great Daoist master and a great Buddhist master. It is a beautiful image I will be thinking about.
My journey through these two philosophies/religions was reverse of yours, as my study of Daoism preceded my study of Buddhism. I find my teachers of both overlapping; sometimes my Daoist teacher sounds like a Buddhist and sometimes my Buddhist teacher sounds like a Daoist, from the framework you have brilliantly and simply outlined here. So I admit, I have let this question dissolve of the comparison of Buddhism and Daoism, in hopes of someone like you who would have a deeper understanding of both to bring some light to it 🙏
I'm curious what Daoist book you read that had qigong forms in it. I do qigong forms already but have just began looking into the thought behind them.
Hey! You could check out The Healing Art of Qigong by Liu Hong Perry. That was the first book I read about qigong and really enjoyed it. In terms of the thought behind qigong and Daoist practice more broadly, I would begin with the classics. Burton Watson’s translation of the Zhuangzi is great. Louis Komjathy also has a book coming out any minute now called Entering Stillness which you might like. I hope this helps! 😊🙏
Oh perfect! I will be looking for the new book but will look for Healing Art and take a look.
Thanks, Oscar. I really enjoyed this. I wonder what a similar exploration of Daoism and the Chan school of Buddhism might reveal? I know that Rinzai Zen has some energy practices, so maybe these are taken from Chan? Look forward to reading more!
Hey Ed! I'm so glad you enjoyed the article. The relationship between Daoism and Chan/ Zen Buddhism is very interesting. I sometimes think of Chan/Zen Buddhism as Daoism phrased in Buddhist terminology and minus discussion of qi.
I didn't know that Rinzai had energetic practices. Do you have any details about the specific practices? They could be from Shingon (a Japanese form of Vajrayana Buddhism), or perhaps from monks that somehow studied internal alchemy. I've heard these exist and actually, to contradict my prior assessment about Chan being Daoism minus qi, there are rare forms of Buddhist internal alchemy associated with places like Shaolin.
I think that, as you say, they’re very similar to the internal alchemy associated with Daoism. Daizan Skinner’s translations of Hakuin’s descriptions of a practice that seems very similar to the microcosmic orbit do use the word ‘alchemy’. Apparently, Hakuin learnt these practices from a hermit as a cure for his ‘Zen sickness’!
That’s fascinating, thank you so much for sharing! I’m going to go have a look at Skinner’s translations. Best wishes Ed 😊💐
To follow up on Ed's mention of Hakuin and "Zen sickness," the hermit Hakuyu (possibly a yamabushi) instructed Hakuin to visualize a lump of butter on his head and to "melt" that butter so it flowed down, dissolving blockages. There is a nice description of this anecdote/practice here: http://underthemoonshadow.blogspot.com/2010/08/soft-butter-method.html